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Book Ovid s Causes

    Book Details:
  • Author : K. Sara Myers
  • Publisher : University of Michigan Press
  • Release : 1994
  • ISBN : 9780472104598
  • Pages : 224 pages

Download or read book Ovid s Causes written by K. Sara Myers and published by University of Michigan Press. This book was released on 1994 with total page 224 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: A stimulating investigation of some of Ovid's source-material.

Book Ovid  Metamorphoses

    Book Details:
  • Author : Ovid
  • Publisher : Cambridge University Press
  • Release : 2009-12-24
  • ISBN : 9780521810258
  • Pages : 248 pages

Download or read book Ovid Metamorphoses written by Ovid and published by Cambridge University Press. This book was released on 2009-12-24 with total page 248 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: In Book XIV of the Metamorphoses Ovid takes his epic for the first time into Italy and continues from book XIII his close intertextual engagement with Virgil's Aeneid. His tendentious treatment of his model subordinates Virgil's epic plot to fantastic tales of metamorphosis, including the erotic Italian tales of Circe Glaucus, and Scylla, and Picus, and Canens. Other Roman myths include Pomona and Vertumnus, as well as events from Romulus' reign. The deifications of Aeneas and Romulus anticipate the poem's closing episodes of imperial apotheosis. This commentary provides guidance to advanced undergraduate and graduate students for understanding Ovid's language, style, artistry, and allusive techniques. The introduction discusses the major structures, themes, and stylistic features of book XIV, its place within the poem as a whole, and Ovid's interpretive imitation of Virgil's Aeneid.

Book Ovid   The Metamorphoses  Books I   VII

Download or read book Ovid The Metamorphoses Books I VII written by Ovid and published by . This book was released on 2019-07-10 with total page 198 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Publius Ovidius Naso but better known to us as simply Ovid was born on 20th March 43 BC in Sulmo (modern day Sulmona) in Italy. He was educated in rhetoric in Rome in preparation for the practice of Law. Accounts of his character say that he was emotional and not able to stay within the argumentative boundaries of rhetoric disclipine. After the early death of his brother, Ovid ceased his law studies and travelled to Athens, Asia Minor, and Sicily. He held a number of minor public posts but, around 29-25 BC began to pursue poetry, a decision that brought with it his father's disapproval. He married three times and divorced twice by the time he was thirty years old. He fathered a daughter, who eventually bore him grandchildren. His last wife was connected to the influential gens Fabia (an ancient Roman patrician family) and would help him during his later exile. The first decades of Ovid's literary career were mostly spent writing poetry with erotic themes. The chronology of these early works cannot, however, be relied upon. His earliest extant work is thought to be the 'Heroides', letters of mythological heroines to absent lovers, which is believed to have been published in 19 BC. The first five-book collection of the 'Amores', erotic poems addressed to a lover, Corinna, is believed to have been published in 16-15 BC. The surviving three book version appears to have been published c. 8-3 BC. Between these two editions of the 'Amores' his tragedy 'Medea', which was much admired in antiquity but is no longer extant, was performed. Ovid buoyed by his glowing reputation now increased the tempo of his writing. 'Medicamina Faciei', was followed by the 'Ars Amatoria, the Art of Love' and immediately followed by 'Remedia Amoris'. This body of elegiac, erotic poetry saw Ovid cited as the equal of the Roman elegists Gallus, Tibullus, and Propertius. By AD 8, he had completed his most ambitious work, the 'Metamorphoses', a 15-book hexameter epic poem. It catalogued Greek and Roman mythology, from the emergence of the universe to the apotheosis of Julius Caesar. Concurrent with this, he worked on the 'Fasti', planned as 12-books but only 6 volumes (January to June were completed) in elegiac couplets on the calendar of Roman festivals and astronomy were completed. The remaining six books were interrupted by Ovid's sentence to exile. In AD 8, Ovid was banished to Tomis, on the Black Sea, by the Emperor Augustus. This event shadowed his life and shaped his remaining poetic output. Ovid wrote that his exile was for carmen et error - "a poem and a mistake", claiming his crime was worse than murder, more harmful than poetry. Ovid was also a contemporary of the older Virgil and Horace, with whom he is often ranked as one of the three canonical poets of Latin literature. The Imperial scholar Quintilian considered him the last of the Latin love elegists. His poetry was much imitated during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, and greatly influenced Western art and literature. The Metamorphoses remains one of the most important sources of classical mythology. In exile, Ovid wrote 'Tristia' and 'Epistulae ex Ponto', pointedly focused on his sadness and desolation. He was far from Rome and his beloved third wife. The five books of the elegiac Tristia, a series of poems expressing the poet's despair in exile and advocating his return to Rome, are dated to AD 9-12. 'The Ibis', an elegiac curse poem attacking an adversary at home is also dated to this period. 'The Epistulae ex Ponto', a series of letters to friends in Rome asking them to effect his return, are thought to be his last compositions. Ovid died at Tomis in AD 17 or 18. It is thought that the Fasti, which he spent time revising, were published posthumously.

Book Ovid   The Metamorphoses  Books VIII   XV

Download or read book Ovid The Metamorphoses Books VIII XV written by Ovid and published by . This book was released on 2019-07-10 with total page 212 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Publius Ovidius Naso but better known to us as simply Ovid was born on 20th March 43 BC in Sulmo (modern day Sulmona) in Italy. He was educated in rhetoric in Rome in preparation for the practice of Law. Accounts of his character say that he was emotional and not able to stay within the argumentative boundaries of rhetoric disclipine. After the early death of his brother, Ovid ceased his law studies and travelled to Athens, Asia Minor, and Sicily. He held a number of minor public posts but, around 29-25 BC began to pursue poetry, a decision that brought with it his father's disapproval. He married three times and divorced twice by the time he was thirty years old. He fathered a daughter, who eventually bore him grandchildren. His last wife was connected to the influential gens Fabia (an ancient Roman patrician family) and would help him during his later exile. The first decades of Ovid's literary career were mostly spent writing poetry with erotic themes. The chronology of these early works cannot, however, be relied upon. His earliest extant work is thought to be the 'Heroides', letters of mythological heroines to absent lovers, which is believed to have been published in 19 BC. The first five-book collection of the 'Amores', erotic poems addressed to a lover, Corinna, is believed to have been published in 16-15 BC. The surviving three book version appears to have been published c. 8-3 BC. Between these two editions of the 'Amores' his tragedy 'Medea', which was much admired in antiquity but is no longer extant, was performed. Ovid buoyed by his glowing reputation now increased the tempo of his writing. 'Medicamina Faciei', was followed by the 'Ars Amatoria, the Art of Love' and immediately followed by 'Remedia Amoris'. This body of elegiac, erotic poetry saw Ovid cited as the equal of the Roman elegists Gallus, Tibullus, and Propertius. By AD 8, he had completed his most ambitious work, the 'Metamorphoses', a 15-book hexameter epic poem. It catalogued Greek and Roman mythology, from the emergence of the universe to the apotheosis of Julius Caesar. Concurrent with this, he worked on the 'Fasti', planned as 12-books but only 6 volumes (January to June were completed) in elegiac couplets on the calendar of Roman festivals and astronomy were completed. The remaining six books were interrupted by Ovid's sentence to exile. In AD 8, Ovid was banished to Tomis, on the Black Sea, by the Emperor Augustus. This event shadowed his life and shaped his remaining poetic output. Ovid wrote that his exile was for carmen et error - "a poem and a mistake", claiming his crime was worse than murder, more harmful than poetry. Ovid was also a contemporary of the older Virgil and Horace, with whom he is often ranked as one of the three canonical poets of Latin literature. The Imperial scholar Quintilian considered him the last of the Latin love elegists. His poetry was much imitated during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, and greatly influenced Western art and literature. The Metamorphoses remains one of the most important sources of classical mythology. In exile, Ovid wrote 'Tristia' and 'Epistulae ex Ponto', pointedly focused on his sadness and desolation. He was far from Rome and his beloved third wife. The five books of the elegiac Tristia, a series of poems expressing the poet's despair in exile and advocating his return to Rome, are dated to AD 9-12. 'The Ibis', an elegiac curse poem attacking an adversary at home is also dated to this period. 'The Epistulae ex Ponto', a series of letters to friends in Rome asking them to effect his return, are thought to be his last compositions. Ovid died at Tomis in AD 17 or 18. It is thought that the Fasti, which he spent time revising, were published posthumously.

Book The Love Books

    Book Details:
  • Author : Ovid
  • Publisher : Phoemixx Classics Ebooks
  • Release : 2021-12-13
  • ISBN : 3986778764
  • Pages : 239 pages

Download or read book The Love Books written by Ovid and published by Phoemixx Classics Ebooks. This book was released on 2021-12-13 with total page 239 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: The Love Books Ovid - The Love Books of Ovid is a collection of four works of Roman poet Ovids verses on love in English prose translation. Ovid, born in 43 B.C., a contemporary of Virgil and Horace, lived during the reign of Augustus and is perhaps best remembered today for his work on Roman mythology entitled The Metamorphoses. This volume collects the poets following works: The Loves, The Art of Love, Loves Cure, and The Art of Beauty. Ovid was an innovator in the writing of love poetry in that he changed the focus of the poem from the poet to love itself and examined the effect of love on people. These works were considered controversial in their time and many scholars believe that Ovids The Art of Love was the cause of his life-long banishment by Augustus to a remote province on the Black Sea. Considered to be a master of the elegy form of poetry, which are poems of lamentation and mourning, and the last of the Latin love elegists, Ovid is faithfully represented here in this English prose translation. Students of classical literature and fans of romantic poetry will both delight in this volume of works by a poetic master. This edition is follows the translation of J. Lewis May.

Book Metamorphoses  Books I VIII

Download or read book Metamorphoses Books I VIII written by Ovid and published by . This book was released on 1960 with total page 500 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt:

Book Ovid s Metamorphoses

Download or read book Ovid s Metamorphoses written by Ovid and published by University of Oklahoma Press. This book was released on 1972 with total page 564 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Ovid is a poet to enjoy, declares William S. Anderson in his introduction to this textbook. And Anderson’s skillful introduction and enlightening textual commentary will indeed make it a joy to use. In these books Ovid begins to leave the conflict between men and the gods to concentrate on the relations among human beings. Subjects of the stories include Arachne and Niobe; Tereus, Procne, and Philomela; Medea and Jason; Orpheus and Eurydice; and many others, familiar and unfamiliar. For students of Latin-and teachers, too-they provide an interesting experience. In his introduction the editor discusses Ovid’s career, the reputation of the Metamorphoses during Ovid’s time and after, and the various manuscripts that exist or have been known to exist. He describes the general plan of the poem, its main theme, and the problem of its tone. Technical matters, such as style and meter, are also considered. In notes the editor summarizes the story being told before proceeding to the line-by-line textual comments.

Book Ovid   The Amores  Or Amours

    Book Details:
  • Author : Ovid
  • Publisher :
  • Release : 2019-07-10
  • ISBN : 9781787806405
  • Pages : 98 pages

Download or read book Ovid The Amores Or Amours written by Ovid and published by . This book was released on 2019-07-10 with total page 98 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Publius Ovidius Naso but better known to us as simply Ovid was born on 20th March 43 BC in Sulmo (modern day Sulmona) in Italy. He was educated in rhetoric in Rome in preparation for the practice of Law. Accounts of his character say that he was emotional and not able to stay within the argumentative boundaries of rhetoric disclipine. After the early death of his brother, Ovid ceased his law studies and travelled to Athens, Asia Minor, and Sicily. He held a number of minor public posts but, around 29-25 BC began to pursue poetry, a decision that brought with it his father's disapproval. He married three times and divorced twice by the time he was thirty years old. He fathered a daughter, who eventually bore him grandchildren. His last wife was connected to the influential gens Fabia (an ancient Roman patrician family) and would help him during his later exile. The first decades of Ovid's literary career were mostly spent writing poetry with erotic themes. The chronology of these early works cannot, however, be relied upon. His earliest extant work is thought to be the 'Heroides', letters of mythological heroines to absent lovers, which is believed to have been published in 19 BC. The first five-book collection of the 'Amores', erotic poems addressed to a lover, Corinna, is believed to have been published in 16-15 BC. The surviving three book version appears to have been published c. 8-3 BC. Between these two editions of the 'Amores' his tragedy 'Medea', which was much admired in antiquity but is no longer extant, was performed. Ovid buoyed by his glowing reputation now increased the tempo of his writing. 'Medicamina Faciei', was followed by the 'Ars Amatoria, the Art of Love' and immediately followed by 'Remedia Amoris'. This body of elegiac, erotic poetry saw Ovid cited as the equal of the Roman elegists Gallus, Tibullus, and Propertius. By AD 8, he had completed his most ambitious work, the 'Metamorphoses', a 15-book hexameter epic poem. It catalogued Greek and Roman mythology, from the emergence of the universe to the apotheosis of Julius Caesar. Concurrent with this, he worked on the 'Fasti', planned as 12-books but only 6 volumes (January to June were completed) in elegiac couplets on the calendar of Roman festivals and astronomy were completed. The remaining six books were interrupted by Ovid's sentence to exile. In AD 8, Ovid was banished to Tomis, on the Black Sea, by the Emperor Augustus. This event shadowed his life and shaped his remaining poetic output. Ovid wrote that his exile was for carmen et error - "a poem and a mistake", claiming his crime was worse than murder, more harmful than poetry. Ovid was also a contemporary of the older Virgil and Horace, with whom he is often ranked as one of the three canonical poets of Latin literature. The Imperial scholar Quintilian considered him the last of the Latin love elegists. His poetry was much imitated during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, and greatly influenced Western art and literature. The Metamorphoses remains one of the most important sources of classical mythology. In exile, Ovid wrote 'Tristia' and 'Epistulae ex Ponto', pointedly focused on his sadness and desolation. He was far from Rome and his beloved third wife. The five books of the elegiac Tristia, a series of poems expressing the poet's despair in exile and advocating his return to Rome, are dated to AD 9-12. 'The Ibis', an elegiac curse poem attacking an adversary at home is also dated to this period. 'The Epistulae ex Ponto', a series of letters to friends in Rome asking them to effect his return, are thought to be his last compositions. Ovid died at Tomis in AD 17 or 18. It is thought that the Fasti, which he spent time revising, were published posthumously.

Book Ovid

    Book Details:
  • Author : Sara Mack
  • Publisher : Yale University Press
  • Release : 1968-01-01
  • ISBN : 9780300166514
  • Pages : 200 pages

Download or read book Ovid written by Sara Mack and published by Yale University Press. This book was released on 1968-01-01 with total page 200 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Of all the poets of ancient Rome Ovid had perhaps the most influence on the art and literature of Medieval and Renaissance Europe. Even today he is probably the most accessible of all classical poets to the non-specialist, both in his subject matter and in his style. Ovid is no less fascinated than we are by the human psyche and by the ways men and women relate to each other, and many of his views on these questions seem centuries ahead of his time. Ovid’s interest in narrative technique is so much like ours that modern critical terms such as “reader-response” could have been coined for his experiments with story telling. In the creation of different personae and points of view his ingenuity is endless. For the Amores he invented a posing poet-lover; for the Art of Love, his narrator is a cynical professor of seduction who is convinced, quite wrongly, that he has love down to a science. In the Heroides, a series of verse-letters from the famous women of legend to their lovers, he brilliantly recreated great moments of heroic mythology from the feminine point of view. The longest and most enchanting of his works, the Metamorphoses, an epic-length poem on the infinite changes of mythology and history, afforded him the richest opportunities of all to experiment with narrative techniques. In this book Sara Mack introduces Ovid to the general reader. After considering Ovid’s modernity, Mack surveys his poetry chronologically. Next she examines his most influential poems: the Amores, Heroides, Art of Love, and Metamorphoses. Finally she explores Ovidian wit, concluding with a look at Ovid’s influence on the arts.

Book Reading Ovid

Download or read book Reading Ovid written by Peter Jones and published by Cambridge University Press. This book was released on 2007-03-08 with total page 273 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Presents a selection from Metamorphoses, designed for those who have completed an introductory Latin course.

Book Metamorphoses

    Book Details:
  • Author : Ovid
  • Publisher : Indiana University Press
  • Release : 2018-04-13
  • ISBN : 0253034493
  • Pages : 534 pages

Download or read book Metamorphoses written by Ovid and published by Indiana University Press. This book was released on 2018-04-13 with total page 534 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Ovid's Metamorphoses is one of the most influential works of Western literature, inspiring artists and writers from Titian to Shakespeare to Salman Rushdie. These are some of the most famous Roman myths as you've never read them before—sensuous, dangerously witty, audacious—from the fall of Troy to birth of the minotaur, and many others that only appear in the Metamorphoses. Connected together by the immutable laws of change and metamorphosis, the myths tell the story of the world from its creation up to the transformation of Julius Caesar from man into god. In the ten-beat, unrhymed lines of this now-legendary and widely praised translation, Rolfe Humphries captures the spirit of Ovid's swift and conversational language, bringing the wit and sophistication of the Roman poet to modern readers. This special annotated edition includes new, comprehensive commentary and notes by Joseph D. Reed, Professor of Classics and Comparative Literature at Brown University.

Book Tales from Ovid

    Book Details:
  • Author : Ted Hughes
  • Publisher : Farrar, Straus and Giroux
  • Release : 1999-03-30
  • ISBN : 9780374525873
  • Pages : 272 pages

Download or read book Tales from Ovid written by Ted Hughes and published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux. This book was released on 1999-03-30 with total page 272 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: A powerful version of the Latin classic by England's late Poet Laureate, now in paperback.When it was published in 1997, Tales from Ovid was immediately recognized as a classic in its own right, as the best rering of Ovid in generations, and as a major book in Ted Hughes's oeuvre. The Metamorphoses of Ovid stands with the works of Homer, Virgil, Dante, and Milton as a classic of world poetry; Hughes translated twenty-four of its stories with great power and directness. The result is the liveliest twentieth-century version of the classic, at once a delight for the Latinist and an appealing introduction to Ovid for the general reader.

Book Ovid  A Very Short Introduction

Download or read book Ovid A Very Short Introduction written by Llewelyn Morgan and published by Oxford University Press. This book was released on 2020-09-24 with total page 152 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: "Vivam" is the very last word of Ovid's masterpiece, the Metamorphoses: "I shall live." If we're still reading it two millennia after Ovid's death, this is by definition a remarkably accurate prophecy. Ovid was not the only ancient author with aspirations to be read for eternity, but no poet of the Greco-Roman world has had a deeper or more lasting impact on subsequent literature and art than he can claim. In the present day no Greek or Roman poet is as accessible, to artists, writers, or the general reader: Ovid's voice remains a compellingly contemporary one, as modern as it seemed to his contemporaries in Augustan Rome. But Ovid was also a man of his time, his own story fatally entwined with that of the first emperor Augustus, and the poetry he wrote channels in its own way the cultural and political upheavals of the contemporary city, its public life, sexual mores, religion, and urban landscape, while also exploiting the superbly rich store of poetic convention that Greek literature and his Roman predecessors had bequeathed to him. This Very Short Introduction explains Ovid's background, social and literary, and introduces his poetry, on love, metamorphosis, Roman festivals, and his own exile, a restlessly innovative oeuvre driven by the irrepressible ingenium or wit for which he was famous. Llewelyn Morgan also explores Ovid's immense influence on later literature and art, spanning from Shakespeare to Bernini. Throughout, Ovid's poetry is revealed as enduringly scintillating, his personal story compelling, and the issues his life and poetry raise of continuing relevance and interest. ABOUT THE SERIES: The Very Short Introductions series from Oxford University Press contains hundreds of titles in almost every subject area. These pocket-sized books are the perfect way to get ahead in a new subject quickly. Our expert authors combine facts, analysis, perspective, new ideas, and enthusiasm to make interesting and challenging topics highly readable.

Book A Discourse of Wonders

    Book Details:
  • Author : Stephen M. Wheeler
  • Publisher : University of Pennsylvania Press
  • Release : 1999-05-13
  • ISBN : 9780812234756
  • Pages : 304 pages

Download or read book A Discourse of Wonders written by Stephen M. Wheeler and published by University of Pennsylvania Press. This book was released on 1999-05-13 with total page 304 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Wheeler proposes instead that Ovid represents himself in the poem as an epic storyteller moved to tell a universal history of metamorphosis in the presence of a fictional audience.

Book Ovid

    Book Details:
  • Author : Ovid
  • Publisher :
  • Release : 1902
  • ISBN :
  • Pages : 188 pages

Download or read book Ovid written by Ovid and published by . This book was released on 1902 with total page 188 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt:

Book Ovid  Metamorphoses  3 511 733

Download or read book Ovid Metamorphoses 3 511 733 written by Ingo Zissos Andrew Gildenhard and published by . This book was released on 2020-10-09 with total page 256 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: This extract from Ovid's 'Theban History' recounts the confrontation of Pentheus, king of Thebes, with his divine cousin, Bacchus, the god of wine. Notwithstanding the warnings of the seer Tiresias and the cautionary tale of a character Acoetes (perhaps Bacchus in disguise), who tells of how the god once transformed a group of blasphemous sailors into dolphins, Pentheus refuses to acknowledge the divinity of Bacchus or allow his worship at Thebes. Enraged, yet curious to witness the orgiastic rites of the nascent cult, Pentheus conceals himself in a grove on Mt. Cithaeron near the locus of the ceremonies. But in the course of the rites he is spotted by the female participants who rush upon him in a delusional frenzy, his mother and sisters in the vanguard, and tear him limb from limb.The episode abounds in themes of abiding interest, not least the clash between the authoritarian personality of Pentheus, who embodies 'law and order', masculine prowess, and the martial ethos of his city, and Bacchus, a somewhat effeminate god of orgiastic excess, who revels in the delusional and the deceptive, the transgression of boundaries, and the blurring of gender distinctions.This course book offers a wide-ranging introduction, the original Latin text, study aids with vocabulary, and an extensive commentary. Designed to stretch and stimulate readers, Gildenhard and Zissos's incisive commentary will be of particular interest to students of Latin at AS and undergraduate level. It extends beyond detailed linguistic analysis to encourage critical engagement with Ovid's poetry and discussion of the most recent scholarly thought. This work was published by Saint Philip Street Press pursuant to a Creative Commons license permitting commercial use. All rights not granted by the work's license are retained by the author or authors.

Book Philosophy in Ovid  Ovid as Philosopher

Download or read book Philosophy in Ovid Ovid as Philosopher written by Gareth Williams and published by Oxford University Press. This book was released on 2022 with total page 417 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: "This volume contains sixteen essays on various aspects of Ovid's engagement with philosophical trends and topics. Ovid has long been celebrated for the versatility of his poetic imagination, the diversity of his generic experimentation throughout his long career, and his intimate engagement with the Greco-Roman literary tradition that precedes him; but what of his engagement with the philosophical tradition? Ovid's close familiarity with philosophical ideas and with specific philosophical texts has long been recognized, perhaps most prominently in the Pythagorean, Platonic, Empedoclean, and Lucretian shades that color his Metamorphoses. This philosophical component, however, has often been perceived as a feature subordinate to Ovid's larger literary agenda; and because of the controlling influence conceded to that literary impulse, readings of the philosophical dimension have often focused on the perceived distortion, ironizing, or parodying of philosophical sources and ideas. This book counters this tendency by (i) considering Ovid's seriousness of engagement with, and his possible critique of, the philosophical writings that inform his works; (ii) questioning the feasibility of separating out the categories of the "philosophical" and the "literary" in the first place; (iii) exploring the ways in which Ovid may offer unusual, controversial, or provocative reactions to received philosophical ideas; and (iv) investigating the case to be made for viewing the Ovidian corpus not just as a body of writings that are often philosophically inflected, but also as texts that may themselves be read as philosophically adventurous and experimental"--